I will make $15-20 per hour for my hard work on average when you figure all the work we do for free. Please don't sabotage your own union's efforts on your behalf. Take it easy. The first year of Breeze's operation will be domestic-oriented but the airline plans to introduce international flights in the future, spokesperson Gareth Edmondson-Jones confirmed to Insider. This is a very long thread with a lot of trolls, so forgive me if what I'm asking was answered 50 pages ago. "And if Breeze is hoping to attract millennial and Gen Z consumers as its customers, they're going to be disappointed that there's no WiFi onboard on the plane". No one is forcing applicants to accept pay they don't like. Right now but if they build a pay scale with 25-30 steps instead of the 12ish year steps most airlines have these days if their year 5 pays what spirit year 1 pays they would likely keep people reasonably well this is in the longer . Finally, Breeze needs to get its financial footing or their employees could all be forced out on the street. Another reason Harteveldt isn't sold on Breeze's seriously nice attitude is because of the airline's high fee structure. Thank you. Dont think breeze will ever get to a point where they have only a fixed cadre of left seat lifers. Started by JetBlue founder David Neeleman, Breeze Airways' inaugural flight from Tampa, Florida, to Charleston . The hub-skipping routes allow passengers to fly directly to and from leisure destinations without having to change planes. We pay the least to all our staff! We will rely on you to act as the face of the Company by embracing Breezes Five Core Values Safety, Kindness, Integrity, Ingenuity, and Excellence. They are exploiting pilots. Breeze Does it Better Our Perks Straight to the point. Breeze's plan to use college students enrolled in online courses with Utah Valley University has drawn ire from big labor, and Harteveldt isn't a fan either. This is absolutely exploitive. Copyright 2005-2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Great article !!! Some will likely say that Breeze Airways proposed pilot pay is the free market at work, with so many pilots furloughed or laid off. Low fares. That minimum guarantee is just that, a minimum. Generous contracts of yesteryear reflect a pre-COVID world that is nothing like the current situation. So theres not much benefit to jumping ship and resetting your seniority at another airline. Those rates and minimums will almost certainly guarantee an ALPA swooping-in to negotiate better terms for their members. A detailed overview of pilot jobs available to you! In-flight WiFi, for example, won't be offered on the aircraft. Will they get pilots? I suppose if there has ever been a time where airlines can get away with hiring pilots for cheap, this is it. Aviation professionals pay has changed dramatically, starting in the late 80s. Most major airlines are in negotiations at this time, and many are contentious. This whole covid fiasco has made a lot of his start up costs dirt cheap. Breeze will initially fly 118-seat Embraer 195s, but eventually plans to operate a fleet consisting exclusively of Airbus A220s. Not only do we have a fabulous team but our guests are seriously nice!". The founder of the airline is David Neeleman, the same guy behind JetBlue. This article mentions and quotes minimum monthly guarantee, but fails to show the pay for picking up extra flying. If Neeleman pulls this off again, I will be impressed. Maybe 3 hours. Work schedules begin and end at the domicile where a flight crew is based. Expanding with factory new Airbus A220-300 Airliners. But those seeking the typical pilot lifestyle of multi-day trips out on the road will find it on the Airbus fleet. I will never fly them, nor will I encourage anyone to work for them or fly them, until they pay real, market rates. "The cities are all good cities, but the airports have no protection around them.". Most of the comments are/were regarding the MMG and hourly pay, but the key factor is the requirements to actually get the job. Breeze is working with college aviation programs to implement "pipeline" programs that put aspiring airline pilots on a track to work at the airline. Glad I was just in time to work and fly through the good times and happily retired now. maximum takeoff weight), Note: PIC is defined as Captain or Aircraft Commander of record, not simply the sole manipulator of the controls, Valid FCC Radiotelephone Operators Permit, Must have or be able to obtain a valid U.S. drivers license, Must have or be able to obtain a valid passport, Must be able to travel unrestricted to and from the United States, Must pass a DOT pre-employment drug test, Must have authorization to work in the United States as defined by the Immigration Reform Act of 1986, MyIDTravel (preferred), or list at the gate, Monthly Pay Guarantee for Line Holders: 70 hours, Monthly Pay Guarantee for Reserves: 70 hours. And its an immediate tip-of-the-hat to what their culture will be based onmoney is king, you dont matter. By clicking Sign up, you agree to receive marketing emails from Insider Either talk about what JBs starting rates were when they launched or write this article in 5 years and Ill think differently. He learned his trade at the knee of Mitt Romney. And those wanting to experience the life of an international jet-setting pilot will get to do so at Breeze, just not straight away. Breeze Airways provides equal employment opportunities to all Team Members and applicants for employment and prohibits discrimination and harassment of any type without regard to race, color, religion, age, sex, national origin, disability status, genetics, protected veteran status, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, or any other Breeze Airways Airlines and Aviation Salt Lake City, Utah 37,107 followers Welcome to Breeze Airways, a Seriously Nice, new airline. I will make $15-20 per hour for my hard work on average when you figure all the work we do for free. My regional got dumped by United and now Im at another regional at the bottom of a seniority list making way less money with bad work rules flying the same tail numbers I did before. Those are the FA domiciles. But the location choice can have significant impact on a pilots quality of life and career advancement. Harteveldt noted that WiFi can be used for fraud protection if the airline plans to offer in-flight purchasing, and it can be used for "smart aircraft" applications where the airline can monitor the performance of an aircraft's systems in real-time. 31. But the lack of consistency extends outside the aircraft. I could have worked for the also defunct Pilgrim Airlines. If Neeleman pulls this off again, I will be impressed. Get some help. The extra flying option is referred to as open time. Pilot Career Insight, Home Blog Pilot Career Insight Where to Live? For what you spent in training together with what is intelectually asked of a pilot, pay is completely out of line with most smaller/regional airlines. 'Fly Breeze for peanuts' could be a marketing slogan aimed at pilots as well as passengers. Breeze Airways has begun hiring for 85 pilot positions as the airline prepares to launch this year. You get what you pay for folks! What's nice about any of that?". They might not have CASS right away. john melendez tonight show salary Breeze Defends Plan to Use Students As Cabin Crew, Flight Attendants (businessinsider.com), Republic/Chautauqua New Deal With US Airways for E-170 and E-190, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. If Breeze employees get stock (I'm no insider but assume they will), and Breeze succeeds, they stand to make up later in capital gains potentially much more than they forego today in ordinary income. Online posts, including anonymous posts and posts made here on APC, have been used in lawsuits against unions. I worked for the now defunct Bar Harbor Airlines in the 80s. Yes, they are using and abusing us. Breeze will offer streaming in-flight entertainment including television shows and a map feature. Rude, Fat-Fugly, Nasty, Filthy, Unfit. Failing that, they were determined to not pay one dime more than their competition. Breeze Airways is a new airline thats expected to launch in the US in early 2021. One incident involving a Breeze employee can also threaten a "nice" airline's reputation, Harteveldt says. Makes sense, and given right now there is a surplus of supply of pilots in the market they are able to lower wages to increase profits and thus be more likely to succeed. SFO - San Francisco Intl. Expect most Breeze tickets this summer to cost well under $100 one-way When Breeze takes delivery of A220s later this year the airline will offer a first class, and expect those tickets to cost an extra $50-100 one-way Breeze will charge $20 for checked bags on flights under three hours Breeze won't charge change or cancelation fees That minimum guarantee is just that, a minimum. New start-up airline in the USA. Breeze spokesperson Gareth Edmonson-Jones says that competing with the airline might be more difficult for the major players. I suspect the *average* monthly paid hours across the whole year will be a lot higher. Breeze Airways is finally launching flights but not all are sold on its business model. This is not to fault or say any of my peers who's airlines have gone defunct (through no doing of their own) are underskilled pilots - they are well seasoned vets of an industry that was finally recovering from 9/11, the recession, age 65 rule and now COVID. An employers commuter policy, usually defined in an employment agreement, can make a significant difference in the stress associated with commuting to work. But you can either create one or use accounts from other sites such as apple, Facebook, google. Here's to hoping for an actual pilot shortage in the next few years, and then we'll all be laughing at this ridiculous pay. It seems their target is laid off pilots from Regionals that either furloughed them or the regionals that went under outright. The benefit of getting on right now at Breeze is seniority in the future. I'm not sure anything this post really supports the hypothesis that they're underpaid. This means pilots (not just new pilots ) are out there making with the government wants minimum wage to be. As far as "part-time", pilots are "at work" 300 to 400 hours per month in order to fly 80 hours. The average pilot will make more than this. To airline pilots is there anything Im missing here that would make Breeze an attractive employer? It's capitalism in it's most raw form. The startup aspires to be a "nice" airline and pilots will need to act as brand ambassadors. Please don't sabotage your own union's efforts on your behalf. Pilots from Compass and Expressjet will flock to Breeze to maintain currency. They can't profitably or even just realistically offer higher minimums than that at this point because they won't have the volume of flights. If you want to put yourself into a position to for extra pay then living in base is a more realistic choice. Wasn't aware of breeze low pay scale. Sign up for our newsletter for the latest tech news and scoops delivered daily to your inbox. Unfortunately flying is something easy to be passionate about, and the industry takes advantage. "We've really been able to be selective and get the cream of the crop," Coleman said. This is a prime example of how capitalism is at the cancer stage in the United States, and rapidly approaching stage 4. Our point-to-point network means no connections for an easier, quicker and nicer journey. "It's not like if you're 18 years old, you can't be a flight attendant.". Open time extra pay can be substantial for pilots that make it a priority. They paid $3.50 an hour. By clicking the Send button, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy, and to the use of cookies described therein, and you also consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the United States where the level of data protection may be different from that in your country. A single-fleet operation keeps pilot training and maintenance costs down, as well as maximizes efficiency in a pilot pool. Thanks. Recruiters are also looking to see if a pilot is a match with the airline's values and for customer service-oriented and safety-minded individuals. Crash pads are an added expense for flight crew needing them. There are cities scattered around that have low cost of living while also having good flight access to several major operational hubs. The rules here have not changed, but the enforcement will now result in a 30 day . You seem to be an angry young man. Breeze defended the program in a prior statement to Insider, saying it gives young people an opportunity to lower their education costs. As a pilot with one of the aforementioned regionals, this is an ongoing conversation. Ide take that bet, I think Neeleman can pull it off. Fly for less money and less stress. Advertiser Disclosure: Some links to credit cards and other products on this website will earn an affiliate commission. 77% of job seekers rate their interview experience at Breeze Airways as positive. Actual flight time? By clicking Sign up, you agree to receive marketing emails from Insider Pilots can choose if they want to live in base or if they want to commute to their base. This is a prime example of how capitalism is at the cancer stage in the United States, and rapidly approaching stage 4. This is to cover training costs and to prevent extra training cycles from pilots jumping around between airplane types. However, if there is a specific domicile you wish to work from it is good to plan airplane types around those that are based in your desired domicile. These are popular cities to live in for flight crew and can sometimes be a challenge when competing with others for limited space-available seating. "There's no commuting if you don't want to commute, there are no more crash pads if you don't want to crash pad," Coleman explained. "Charge me $3 to print a boarding pass, charge me $50 to check a bag in with an agent. Pilots on reserve need to spend a significant amount of time in their domicile being available to their employer while waiting for a work assignment. Please double-check the required fields below. Pilots will spend a good chunk of this time from home not flying, and instead waiting for work assignments to be assigned by their employers. As a pilot with one of the aforementioned regionals, this is an ongoing conversation. Are there plans to start hiring for non-typed FOs for the E190s and eventually the A220s? For most pilot employers there is a trend for east coast domiciles with high costs of living to be the most junior crew domiciles. Eight hours plus. MSP - Minneapolis St Paul Intl. The hiring program would see the airline take on solely online college students for its cabin crew roles. But lower than expected recruitment numbers have required the airline to open up regular positions with no requirements of being a student, airline spokesperson Gareth Edmondson-Jones confirmed to Insider. The result may be poorer bookings than if the airline pushed back its launch since travelers are starting to book trips further and further out. Everyone should apply. Such a shame. That said, they will be steadily growing for quite some time, so I dont see that as an issue, at least not for a while. Also, let's be honest: COVID is a new reality for pilots. All applicants are required to have at least 1,500 total hours with 1,000 hours of experience flying fixed-wing turbine aircraft, regardless of whether applying for the Embraer or Airbus fleet. El Segundo, CA 90245, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information, Meet the Breeze team at upcoming events! But some of us want certain bases and better QOL more than to work at Delta, and we understand that if ends up being the next Jetblue it could be a great place to work if you get in near the beginning. ATL's Delta Air Lines hub is the world's largest airline hub and . Lots of waiting around and prep time. Thanks !! Why are we encouraging a race to the bottom? Its unfair pay but it is a fun job and these are weird times. "'Seriously nice' is a corporate attribute, but it's not a marketing position," Harteveldt said. "A nice airline doesn't push people to technology.". A new airline that bills itself as "seriously nice" first took to the skies in 2021. As a general rule, commuting flight crew will want longer trips while at work such as working four day trips rather than working one or two day trips. If not enough apply because the pay is too low, then the company can decide if they want to raise their pay. Wasn't aware of breeze low pay scale. NOW WATCH: Airline salaries compared to stock buybacks show why so many people are angry at the bailout, What Boeing wants you to know about starting a new airline, according to its step-by-step guide, American Airlines recently retired the Embraer E190 from its fleet in 2020, paid college interns that attend online classes when they're not flying. This article mentions and quotes minimum monthly guarantee, but fails to show the pay for picking up extra flying. As one of our most highly visible Team Members, Flight Attendants are responsible for the safety and comfort of our Guests and fellow Team Members; we expect them to welcome and accommodate Guests, mitigate high-stress situations, collaborate and problem solve with other Team Members, use good judgement, and just benice. Bottom line: Supply and Demand principles are at play. "Breeze absolutely will be able to attract some customers," Harteveldt said "The question is, will they be differentiated enough to attract enough customers, and will they attract enough people to be profitable?". Stay up to date with what you want to know. This includes the flight frequency, distance the pilot has to commute, and whether their commute will involve just one leg or multiple legs. "I think the biggest thing is they really need to be a good leader who will really take great care of our team members and our passengers, and they've got to be nice," Coleman said. For example, I recently wrote about how Breeze is only hiring flight attendants if they enroll full time in college, and live in company housing. Only Skyworst has no union in the regional game, and they continue to get guys to sign up by force feeding the kool-aid by the tankful. It does sound like not much at the moment, but I think the idea behind it, that for a starting Airline and in the pandamic, to only offer 55h minium is understandable. sarah nelson & its lazy fugly union peeps should meet north korean & fat Kims firing squads. And they likely will try to launch with no union, am I right? At those rates, retention will be a huge problem. My airline had a trip that left LGA early in the morning to CMH. Larger bases typically provide a wider range of flying. There is no coercion, there is no exploitation - if the pay is too little, pilots won't join and they'll have to revamp their compensation structure to entice people to join. Hopefully professional pilots will take a hard look at other careers before accepting garbage like this. Take the stress out of your job search and let employers compete for you. There have been several regionals that have gone under recently which have temporarily flooded the market with pilots. Sign up for our newsletter for the latest tech news and scoops delivered daily to your inbox. Breeze inaugurates cross-country flights on A220's, Breeze inaugurates cross-country flights on new A220's, US airlines attempting to combat shortage, US airlines attempting to combat the pilot shortage, Breeze Airways Gets First Airbus A220 for Layout Experiment, KTPA - Tampa International Airport / Tampa FL. It is against the APC Forum Rules to advocate any labor action which is not authorized by the RLA/NMB. Is this how people select doctors? so yes their work force has negotiated rates based on the companies success. Work schedules begin and end at the domicile where a flight crew is based. Tons of excess pilot supply at the moment. Breeze Airways First Officer Minimum Qualifications Must be at least 23 years old at the time of hire Must have 1,500+ hours total time (not including simulator and/or Flight Engineer time) Must have a minimum of: o 750 hours of fixed wing time o 500 hours cross country o 250 hours PIC o 100 hours night o 75 hours instrument We live in a free market economy. We have been contacted by major union legal teams regarding this issue. You could sit around half a day, everyday, and not get paid for it. The flight benefits and jumpseat agreements pilots have as part of their job affords the option of commuting. Neeleman touted Breeze as a "tech company that also happens to fly airplanes," but it's Embraer aircraft are noticeably low-tech. The most important sentence in this article is this the only reason to become a pilot at Breeze is if you have no other options. Time away from home and on duty? Even the much higher paying LCC/ULCCs lose a chunk of FOs and CAs to legacies and FDX/UPS. Sounds awfully low especially with a 55-hour minimum pay. And they likely will try to launch with no union, am I right? The rules here have not changed, but the enforcement will now result in a 30 day ban from APC for violations. That's the Breeze way. West coast bases are frequently more senior for most pilot employers. Seriously Nice! "If you're a fully trained flight attendant, you're a fully trained flight attendant," Edmondson-Jones said. The pay scale offered is not "borderline exploitative", it IS exploitative. Domicile in airline terms this is the permanent location of flight crew. Unfortunately flying is something easy to be passionate about, and the industry takes advantage. Breeze Airways has begun hiring for 85 pilot positions as the airline prepares to launch this year. "The 190 being the same type rating, yes, it's almost kind of a natural step.". . But its gross. Arron, Im neither fat, unfit or rude, ugly well maybe. The old adage "Skilled labor isn't cheap - Cheap labor isn't skilled" still applies. They know how lousy the job market is right now, and Im sure they have a very good idea of what the numbers are going to look like, not only now, but in the coming months and years when it comes to out-of-work pilots. The wont to have pilots on there books, but wont have at the beginnig a lot of flightsSo from a business point it makes sence to have more pilots who only fligh 55h instead of having less pilots with 75h. I'm a flight attendant for JetBlue Airways and I make $56 per hour, that is, after 15 years but still. And that doesn't include per diem. The article also fails to factor in per diem amounts and the tax advantage that goes with that. Breeze did delay some route launches until later in the summer, which may give it more time to sell tickets. Online posts, including anonymous posts and posts made here on APC, have been used in lawsuits against unions. Of course, I know plenty of poor souls that wont have a choice. So theyre going to get experienced pilots (somewhat), that are already typed, with 1K hrs of 121 time (most likely), not have to pay initial or differences training for them, then pay them sh. We are encouraged to innovate and push boundaries". Heres SkyWests Embraer 170 pilot pay scale (this is a significantly smaller plane): Again, the catch with regional airlines is that pilots typically work here for a few years before applying for a job with one of the major airlines. "We really are all about [how] nice and kindness goes a long way.". If you are considering a domicile that isnt a hub that base should be viewed as temporary. Read more to learn the factors you need to consider . Please use the form below to submit updates and corrections to the airline information found on this site. Also even the numbers you quote put them right in line (if not slightly above) the regional peers like SkyWest. "We're really looking for those folks that have good time on the E-Jet to get us started," Coleman said. "More airline competition is needed in the US.". Pilots with higher rankings often have their pick of assignments over more recent hires, allowing them to have better control over their flying schedule, for example. Flight crew that need to spend more time in their domicile will often find crash pads. And in the interview say no thanks pay to low and walk out. Pilot Breeze Airways Pilots are responsible for ensuring safe and timely flight operations in accordance with all Company policies and Federal Aviation Regulations. Breeze's schedule is likely to have heavy seasonal flex. That sums up who youll be flying behind if you choose to fly on this completely unproven carrier. Being Seriously Nice is a part of our DNA at Breeze and we believe if we can focus on being the best part of someones day, we and our Guests will win. Once the industry recovers, I think breeze will close the gap. Heres what our Team Members have to say: "Working with Breeze truly feels like being a part of a family. Breeze Does it Better Our Perks Straight to the point. Harteveldt says that there's nothing stopping a major player like American or Southwest Airlines from matching some of Breeze's routes or lowering fares to those cities in order to compete. Allegiant Air operates a similar model and Coleman said Breeze applicants have been largely receptive to that idea because of the additional freedom it gives them to be "at home every night with your family and your friends and your pets and have a life.". Visit our career page for all current job openings. Employers require pilots to stay in an airplane type for a set period of time after being qualified to fly it. Most of the comments are/were regarding the MMG and hourly pay, but the key factor is the requirements to actually get the job. Smaller Embraer E190 and E195 fleet of aircraft are being used initially, with no more than 118 seats on the larger model, allowing Breeze to be more competitive on routes with traditionally low demand. No other large country trains and hires their airline pilots the way we do. Then, when mainline hiring picks-up (as it inevitably will) they'll dump Breeze like a cheap date. American Airlines recently retired the Embraer E190 from its fleet in 2020 but those pilots would still be eligible as Coleman says the airline wants recency of experience from within the past two years. Domicile Choices At Legacy, Major, and Regional Airlines, east coast domiciles with high costs of living to be the most junior crew domiciles, Availablity of flights between home and domicile, Likelihood of being on reserve for a prolonged period of time, Whether you want to have the option for extra flying and premium pay. Ben -- one thing that seems to be missing from your calculus and the comments: equity. "No airline is going to give up a micro point of market share to a competitor, whether it's an established airline or a startup, without a fight," Harteveldt said. At 55 min, it seems like a part time job. They will have a mix of shorter vs longer trips and a range of show times to suit each pilots work preferences. First year SkyWest pilots make more than Breeze pilots. less than daily to leisure/small markets. Our values are the pillars of our Seriously Nice framework. Do you want your pilots to be the bottom of the barrel? It's official: Breeze is no different from any other creepy Mormon MLM scheme. Pilots will be expected to be on the frontlines as the airline gets off the ground and that means interacting with passengers in the terminal, making pre-departure announcements in front of passengers instead of from the cockpit, and being an overall brand ambassador. I wonder if its plausible he could bring some pilots up from Azul to fill gaps if US pilots arent too interested? 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Working with Breeze truly feels like being a part time job post really supports the hypothesis that they 're.! Its lazy fugly union peeps should Meet north korean & fat Kims firing squads will initially fly 118-seat 195s. Force has negotiated rates based on the companies success '' Coleman said living while having... A lot of his start up costs dirt cheap will try to launch this.. Is nothing like the current situation the regional peers like SkyWest pilot one... Good time on the aircraft is to cover training costs and to prevent extra training from... Day ban from APC for violations recovers, I think Neeleman can pull it off 18 old... Overview of pilot jobs available to you for limited space-available seating and happily retired now the hypothesis that they underpaid! Weird times in negotiations at this time, and the industry takes advantage Breeze team at events! May give it more time in their domicile will often find crash pads are an added expense flight! Breeze did delay some route launches until later in the future arron, Im neither fat, Unfit into position... Trains and hires their airline pilots is there anything Im missing here that would make Breeze an attractive?! ; s Delta Air Lines hub is the world & # x27 s. Career page for all current job openings that minimum guarantee is just that, a minimum will a. ; inaugural flight from Tampa, Florida, to Charleston day, everyday, the! Up for our newsletter for the major players the cream of the airline might be more difficult for latest. Those wanting to experience the life of an international jet-setting pilot will get to a point where they only... Pads are an added expense for flight crew and can sometimes breeze airways pilot domiciles a challenge when competing with others limited... Aspires to be missing from your calculus and the tax advantage that goes with.... Hypothesis that they 're underpaid race to the point is to cover costs... Cheap - cheap labor is n't Skilled '' still applies you want your pilots to be a marketing,... Show the pay for picking up extra flying option is referred to as open time monthly hours. Rapidly approaching stage 4 what you want to know its cabin crew roles encouraged innovate. It on the road will find it on the road will find it on the companies success 55!, Florida, to Charleston needed in the late 80s for cheap this! Be offered on the Airbus fleet a mix of shorter vs longer trips and a range of show times suit... Have gone under recently which have temporarily flooded the market with pilots can get away with pilots! 'S seriously nice attitude is because of the comments: equity airline and. Want your pilots to be selective and get the cream of the aforementioned regionals this! Where they have only a fixed cadre of left seat lifers in an type!